With the release of Witnesses II just around the corner I chatted to Greg Schwan, one part of the NYC based duo, about the sophomore release.
This is an edited version of the conversation Greg and I had over [REDACTED] 26/05/18 – Ed
What can you tell me about Witnesses II?
Witnesses II was actually written around the same time as Witnesses I. That said, it’s different. If Witnesses I was dark alley, this is more outer space. I don’t want us to repeat ourselves, and there’s tons we want to explore. There’s more explorations of arps and pads here, even a towelled snare at one point. I hesitate to associate it with any eras or genres, but those things are there.
Listening to II I was a remiss at first wondering where the awesome sax was but thankfully that made an appearance
Yeah, Jørgen (Munkeby) plays in three parts. All of them incredible. He nailed it. But we make you wait this time. I think he comes in pretty quickly on I.
There’s an interview that Björk done with Arvo Pärt and there are moments definitely with the first album where his description of composition I feel fits your work. This is in relation to the space you give the listener.
Yes, space. Space has everything to do with this type of music. I’ve seen that Pärt interview with Björk. Two geniuses, to be sure, and I love them both. I’m beyond thrilled if we fit into Pärt’s definitions. Incidentally, he did scoring work at some point in his career– I believe the 70s. I don’t think it meant much to him.
That’s part of why the solo violin and sax are used sparingly. If we let them take over it’d be a different thing. But they are supposed to be bursts that come and go against something that is more overall meditative. If you listen to the opening bars of The Revenant soundtrack, it’s a clinic in space.
Is there a narrative through Witnesses II?
Yes. There is a story behind II. There was also a story behind I. I’m very uncomfortable about sharing though, because I want listeners to take what they will. That said, if you follow the titles in Witnesses II, you can probably put it together. Also depending on your film knowledge the cover image is quite a tell.
Would you consider II to be a work of art in contrast to say something based on disposable hooks (a la much of pop music)
That’s an interesting point. I really like a good hook, but you’re definitely right. This isn’t about hooks. There’s plenty of repetition, but earworms aren’t really what we’re trying to create. The fact that it’s instrumental I think is an automatic pop disqualification, too. For me I’m trying to create some kind of mood. It’s the best way I can think to describe it. You can’t put this music on at just any time. It won’t work. It’s, I hope, too challenging for that.
I like the idea of experiencing it like photography. The artwork is incredibly important to me. I feel very lucky to have grown up before nearly everything went digital. I used to buy records simply because of the artwork. It’s ridiculous, but that was so much fun. Now, when I buy a digital album, the artwork is beyond secondary. That’s quite sad when you think of it. And as a small, indie artist, printing up these discs may be a waste. But even for myself, I want the artwork.
Pop doesn’t make it’s way into Witnesses I and II. But I have plenty of guilty pop pleasures. Not many in the rotation at the moment, but I guess I feel there is something to a hook that sticks with you all through the day, or even further.
“I really just bang on shit till I get what I want.”
What are some of your favourite hooks by pop artists?
That’s a great question. I could, and have, listened to Beat It by Michael Jackson on repeat.
The best pop record of all time is probably Pet Sounds. Pet Sounds is probably the quintessential Beach Boys album. Everyone should listen to it at some point!
You’ve got me thinking of pop songs now. Madonna’s Borderline. Amazing.
Madonna is amazing.
Have lyrics ever been a thing you’ve considered for Witnesses?
Witnesses is not strictly an instrumental project. We’ll get to singing in time. But I am very, very– I’m not sure what the word is. But I’ll scrutinize it heavily. We have two covers that we did, and I was happy with what we go there. For our original music, it’ll just have to be really special. I have already reached out to a few vocalists for future releases, but we’re not there yet.
Do things like the sax and other instruments follow a lyrical voice?
I can’t say I’ve ever connected the two, but if someone does I find that really cool. Extremely cool, actually. For me the sax and solo violin are textural. The sax, or Jørgen in particular, has been brilliant because if I have any background, it certainly isn’t jazz. So those colors are just really brilliant to inject.
What is your musical background?
I started playing guitar in high school. I then picked up keys a little bit, and have played bass as well. I took a lesson or two, but never was trained. I wish I had a bit more formal knowledge of music, but I really just bang on shit till I get what I want. I saw Einar Selvik of Wardruna do a solo thing here in NYC recently and he said he didn’t know what chords he was playing. That was encouraging, not that our music matches Wardruna’s.
Witnesses started as my desire to put out a proper doom metal album. Doom metal is one of my first loves. However, we got stuck. It’s a long story, but we couldn’t make progress on the songs for a few reasons. At that point I just said fuck it. It’s time to try something else. I wrote I pretty fast. It kind of just happened. I’ve known Suvo for ages, so I just asked him to join. It was all really easy. You know, we used to mess around with Tascam 4-tracks and even boom boxes. But software has come so far, we can do a tremendous amount now and never even have to be in the same room. As such, Suvo and I have never written together in that sense. It’s all files going back and forth.
You mentioned earlier that I and II were written around the same time. How did II arise? Is II a complimentary album and/or direct sequel or a companion to I?
I’m not completely sure. I would not say a sequel. Funny though, I’ve been thinking of Witnesses 2 1/2. I feel like I have more to say here, and Witnesses III is again different. III is already written from a keys perspective, and it’s more violent and abrasive. And something dark and ugly is coming out on Witnesses III. I view it as short stories. When I and II are just one large story, each. We are also working on IV and a very special work that is entirely different.
